RBC Manifold vs RRC Manifold

[KidnKorner]

Hey guys I was able to dyno a customers car before and after to compare the RBC vs the RRC (07 CTR) manifolds and the RRC made 7 more WHP over the RBC.

This manifold was installed on a 06 Civic Si.

His mods are

Injen CAI with Apexi Power Flow
Coolant bybass
RRC... not a RBC
P2R throttle body gasket
Hondata IMG
custom mandrel bent 2.5 with magnaflow straight through
Thermotec wrapped Vibrant RH
Unorthodox underdrive pulleys
ACT prolight 8.5lbs flywheel
Boomba Mounts
buddy club condenser

This is the baseline with the RBC and the power difference in these runs was the addition of 100 octane



This run is with the RRC manifold installed.


Disregard the torque spikes, they were due to a sensor error.

[bossman032]

Looks pretty good. It would be better if you could play with timing and cam angles. Looks like it has some potential of beating the rbc..

[KidnKorner]

The manifold even made a tad more power before the cam lobe switch.

[Brooklynk24a]

Originally Posted by KidnKorner

The manifold even made a tad more power before the cam lobe switch.

Thanks for the post. Do you know what TB your customer is running? I wonder how you bypass DBW on older cars: EG, DC, EF, etc...

Do you have a picture of the manifold in the engine bay? I want to see if it has more hood clearance than RBC. Would this manifold bolt onto k24 head or does it have to be modified?

[ep305]

that's awesome!

i googled 'rrc intake manifold' and came across another forum who did a visual comparison between the rbc and rrc intake manifolds.

http://www.zerotohundred.com/newforu...omparison.html

does anyone know where to pick up an rrc intake manifold other than hmotorsonline.com?

[Mr_Plenty]

good information...

[mike323]

Something is not right with the air/fuel tables. The graphs look completly different. Did you play with the fuel tables during the switch to the RRC intake manifold?

Based on the air/fuel tables ploted, the conclusion that the RRC is superior to the RBC cannot be concluded.

On the RBC graph the a/f ratio is about 12:1 between 101 & 107mph, while on the RRC the a/f ration is about 13:1. It's obvious an a/f ratio between 13:1 and 13.7:1 is better suited on a natural aspirated Kseries engine at high rpms.

[KidnKorner]

Originally Posted by ep305

that's awesome!

i googled 'rrc intake manifold' and came across another forum who did a visual comparison between the rbc and rrc intake manifolds.

http://www.zerotohundred.com/newforu...omparison.html

does anyone know where to pick up an rrc intake manifold other than hmotorsonline.com?

LOL, I see you have found a thread made by a customer of mine where they have reposted my post. THOSE ARE MY PICS!!!!

Also had you looked a little harder on this site you would see that I posted on here already with that info.

http://k20a.org/forum/showthread.php?t=55215

Originally Posted by mike323

Something is not right with the air/fuel tables.

There is a critic in every bunch, lol. The a/f tables are what they are. They are only there because the customer asked for them to be printed. These are just dyno runs, no tuning, or messing with any fuel trims were messed with.

The RRC has to be cut just like the RBC to be bolted onto K20A and CRV cylinder heads. Also there is no IACV port so users must introduce a vacuum source for idle control.

The manifold is a direct bolt on for any DBW car and the customer is using his stock Civic Si throttle body.

[allmotora2]

is the tb port 65mm? i thought i read the type r tb is 65mm?

[jdmspecdc5]

a/f looks like it could be correct. if the manifold is introducing more air it will run leaner. the dip to around 12:1 a/f could be due to the maf and ecu trying to compensate.

[mike323]

Originally Posted by jdmspecdc5

a/f looks like it could be correct. if the manifold is introducing more air it will run leaner. the dip to around 12:1 a/f could be due to the maf and ecu trying to compensate.

First of all, the ecu does not compensate when the engine is in full throttle, it uses all the fuel, ignition and cam angle all ready preset or programmed.

Second, we don't have a MAF in our K20s or K24s.

[mike323]

Originally Posted by KidnKorner

There is a critic in every bunch, lol. The a/f tables are what they are. They are only there because the customer asked for them to be printed. These are just dyno runs, not uning, or messing with any fuel trims were messed with.

A critic and someone that pays attention to details.

If the RBC had an a/f ratio of about 13:1 to 13.5:1 it would of had about 3-4whp more, therefore the RRC would of only produced 2-3whp more than the RBC.

[KidnKorner]

You guys kill me. All I can tell you is that the customer came to me one week to do a run with his existing mods then wanted to run his tank dry and try 100 octane.

A few weeks later he came back with the RRC I sold him and bolted it to his car and I strapped his car to the roller and dyno'd it.

I didn't mess with anything, there is no plug and play tuning for this platform. Read whatever you want into it, it is what it is.

[jdmspecdc5]

Originally Posted by mike323

First of all, the ecu does not compensate when the engine is in full throttle, it uses all the fuel, ignition and cam angle all ready preset or programmed.

Second, we don't have a MAF in our K20s or K24s.

true. the ecu runs in open loop at full throttle.

btw we may not have a maf but the 06+ Si does.

[xproductionz]

Originally Posted by KidnKorner

You guys kill me. All I can tell you is that the customer came to me one week to do a run with his existing mods then wanted to run his tank dry and try 100 octane.

A few weeks later he came back with the RRC I sold him and bolted it to his car and I strapped his car to the roller and dyno'd it.

I didn't mess with anything, there is no plug and play tuning for this platform. Read whatever you want into it, it is what it is.

if this is true then u dont have a true back to back run.. since he came back a week later anything could have happened to gain that power.. change in weather.. temperature.. humidty and so forth.. even the customer playing wit the settings themselves

alot could have happened in that one week to make a diff of 7whp... there is a margin of error thats why i can see where mike is coming from.. is this was a back to back run then yes i would say otherwise

[KidnKorner]

Originally Posted by xproductionz

if this is true then u dont have a true back to back run.. since he came back a week later anything could have happened to gain that power.. change in weather.. temperature.. humidty and so forth..

Like I said read WHATEVER you want into it.

run 1 74.92 degrees F 28.85 in-HG 17% humidity
run 2 75.35 degrees F 28.88 in-HG 16% humidity
run 3 71.06 degrees F 28.54 in-HG 27% humidity

Originally Posted by xproductionz

even the customer playing wit the settings themselves

Playing with settings, what settings would that be? His motec system exhaust?

This is a 2006 Civic Si, and there is no plug and play tuning solution for the vehicle.

[bossman032]

Not a considerable upgrade for a 2006 + si anyways.

But from the results it looks promising the upgrade

[k20addict]

i'd love to do a comparison between rbc, rrc and any other oem honda manifold on the new tsx motor w/full vtc advance and proper tuning

[b20eg6]

KidnKorner, thank you for posting this. I'm not saying it made more power or it didn't, but thank you.

[Adam West]

What are the price comparisons between the two?